Podcast: Panicked Over Finances? Why Money Influences our Mental Health

The rent is due tomorrow; but then you’ll be left with simply $10 for the week’s groceries. What do you do? Numerous people panic over fund( or the absence of it ), but for those of us with mental illness, it can feel like a life or death situation: It can provoke an even greater anxiety attack and/ or sadnes. Or it is likely to mean not being able to afford the medication that saves you well enough to work. What can be done?

In this Not Crazy episode, Gabe and Jackie discuss how you can gain a sense of ensure in these situations, and Jackie shares her own big money scare.

( Transcript Available Below )


About The Not Crazy Podcast Hosts

Gabe Howard is an award-winning writer and loudspeaker who lives with bipolar disorder. He is the author of the popular book, Mental Illness is an Asshole and other Watchings, available from Amazon; signed replicas are too available directly from Gabe Howard . To learn more, please visit his website,

Jackie Zimmerman has been in the patient advocacy game for over a decade and has established herself as an expert on chronic illness, patient-centric healthcare, and case society house. She lives with multiple sclerosis, ulcerative colitis, and depression.

You can find her online at, Twitter, Facebook, and LinkedIn .

Computer Generated Transcript for” Panicked Over Money” Episode

Editor’s Note: Please be mindful that this transcript has been computer generated and therefore may contain corrects and grammar wrongdoings. Thank you.

Announcer: You’re listening to Not Crazy, a Psych Central podcast. And here are your emcees, Jackie Zimmerman and Gabe Howard.

Gabe: Hey, everyone, and welcome to this week’s episode of the Not Crazy podcast. I would like to introduce my co-host, Jackie Zimmerman, who lives with major depression and nervousnes disorders.

Jackie: And you know this guy, Gabe Howard, who lives with bipolar disorder.

Gabe: Jackie, we’ve been friends for a while now, we’ve been doing this show for several months and I has been determined that I want to risk all of that by talking about the one subject that effects more defends than any other subject known to man.

Jackie: And what would that be?

Gabe: Money. I want to talk about money.

Jackie: Money, coin, money.

Gabe: So in a recent poll, the three things that married couples fight about more than anything else are family, belief and coin. And I would argue that fund is at the top because nobody is taking beings like onto the People’s Court or Judge Judy to sue over political and religious inconsistencies. Fund is everywhere. If you talk to anybody, literally just go grab a stranger on the street. Be like, hey, you ever lost a friend over $10? Almost everybody will have a story of a tie that merely imploded over what we would consider a small amount of money. Money merely procreates an intense amount of tension in our society.

Jackie: And the thing that I think is distinct about fund and suspicion is that it’s something that I would assume everybody know-hows , not just people who are prone to anxiety , not just people who live with mental illness, but everyone has had some kind of issue with fund that has given them anxiety.

Gabe: When I was younger, I used to watch golf with my grandfather and, you are aware, they always do these expose on the multi-millionaire golfers, and they were interviewing one of them and “theyre saying”, hey, when you have a putt and if you compile the putt, you win $100,000 and if you don’t make it, you lose $100,000, does that lawsuit you tension? Does that fix you agitated? And the guy said, you are aware, the most fearful I’ve ever been playing golf is when I speculation another golfer a hundred dollars that I could make this putt and I didn’t have the hundred dollars in my pocket. That actually speaking on me because it wasn’t the amount of money anymore. It was the awkwardness of discussing the money, detecting the money, figuring out the money like this is what generated this guy suspicion. And again, he’s acclaimed. I don’t know, maybe it was just a cute story he was telling, but that constitutes appreciation to me. You ever been in line and been a dollar short? Like, how humiliating is that when you thinking that everybody in the place is like over on registry five, there’s a tall, overweight redhead that does not have one dollar to pay for his groceries.

Jackie: I can feel that because if you’ve ever had your credit card lessened for any reason, your debit card and you want to justify it. I know there’s coin on there. That’s so weird. I time used it like I just got paid. I assert I’m not a poor person. There’s this like panic where you exactly want to justify why it didn’t work. And my premise is all of this comes from the scarcity model, right? We’re all afraid of not having fairly. What happens when we don’t have enough? So how hard do we have to work to get enough? What if we’re working really hard and there continues to don’t have enough? And the tension around all of that of how much do “youve had”? What happens when it’s gone? I think is something that is underlying in our society and in everybody but amplified for those who live with any kind of illness. Because for me precisely, when I use at a big, overweight corporate responsibility and I made all kinds of money, all I deemed to myself was, I’m staying here forever. So that practice I clear so much money that I never have to worry about what happens if I actually can’t work again because I will merely bank so much money. I’ll have so much better. I’ll always pay my health insurance. I’ll always has already been of this nonsense. And spoiler alert, I don’t work there anymore. I didn’t bank any money when I did work there. But when you have an illness, whatever kind it is, you’re worried about coin not just because of ordinary concludes, but you’re worried about like, what if I can’t work forever? What if I can’t pay my health insurance? What if I can’t afford to be health?

Gabe: There’s a meme that the project works its nature around the Internet that ever says that we’re all three bad months away from being homeless. I don’t know if that’s true for all of us, but that really spoke to me because it took about three bad months to genuinely articulated me in a bad way where I started to need help. On an interesting surface memorandum , none of us are three months away from being millionaires. So I think that we need to take that into account when we’re determining how to like maybe, you are aware, arrangement our health insurance and things like that. But but incorrect. Wrong show. We’ll really put that aside for a moment. But think about this. The whole world is discussing being three bad months away from homelessness. Whether or not that holds up is really irrelevant. I think that does speak to the majority of beings. Now, let’s apply that to people living with mental illness, parties succeeding “peoples lives” long and chronic disease, because I known better if I couldn’t open my medication, if I couldn’t open care, if I couldn’t have afforded hospitalizations and on and on and on. Gabe Howard would not be sitting here. That’s just a hard fact. Yes, I worked hard. Yes, I have a adoring pedigree. But you know what really saved me? Resources and that aid all boiled down to hundred dollar bill. And that’s sad.

Jackie: The catalyst for this specific episode was from about a week ago, I communicated Gabe a text and basically I had a full blow tension meltdown because my husband had announced me and said, oh my God, our health insurance double-faced on my last paycheck. And I said, wait, what do you entail it doubled? They didn’t tell us that. Like, they obviously would communicate that because that’s what ordinary people reflect happens in the world. But they didn’t. They just made it out of his check and it was redoubled. And I panicked. And I have not had an actual panic attack in, I can’t tell you how long, but I felt it. It was the heart racing, soul suppres. Can’t breathe like, oh, my God, what are we going to do? Just because we parties right now who are living quite paycheck to paycheck. And that is even questionable because I don’t know when my paychecks are coming in, because I work for myself and I don’t have regular paychecks. And my husband took a settle chipped a year ago to take the job he’s at now. So all of this is spiraling around my principal and I’m like, how are we gonna do this? This is $ 400 we didn’t know we needed and I could just work harder. But where am I going to find the clients? Only, you know, feeling spiral talk in your honcho. And I contacted out to Gabe because we were already talking. I said, hey, I know you’re telling me something important right now, but I’m not really listening honestly, because I’m worried about this health insurance thing. And I recognized in that moment how money is something that can cause high distres. And within a split second, like he referred me that text about our health insurance doubling. And almost immediately I was in a full blown panic about it.

Gabe: There’s so many directions that we can take this, and that reaches me roused. I cherish it when Jackie, says, oh my God, X, and I’m like, Oh my God, we can do y z bat represent. So we might have to create multiple timelines. And let me ask you multiple a matter of this, because the first question that I’m going to ask you is if your health insurance would have double-dealing and you had a million dollars in the bank, would it have bothered you at all?

Jackie: Me today fantasizes no, but I also think that people who have a million dollars in the bank are really good about money and any kind of unexpected outlay that comes up, they’re upset about it also.

Gabe: I understand what you’re saying because paying attention to our resources is a vital part of money management. But a year ago I was sitting on my lounge at like 2:00 in the morning and it was storming and I felt a descent of water on my top. And I gazed up and the ceiling was seeping like leaking a great deal. And I witnessed all of this shatter. And I felt, oh, well, that’s a bummer. And I went to bed. I precisely went to bed. That’s it. There was nothing I could do about it. I couldn’t stop the downpour. I don’t know how to fix a ceiling. I don’t know how to fix a ceiling. But the reason that I didn’t freak out and panic is because I had the money. I flat out had the money. I knew that I could afford to fix it. There was nothing I could do. And I slept well. And I should be considered this because I should be considered Gabe when he was in the little six hundred square hoof accommodation living paycheck to paycheck with a thirty five hundred dollar deductible. And anytime my auto made a noise, I really white knuckled because I couldn’t open it. When lubricant convert epoch came around, I imagined, photograph. Where am I gonna get 30 horses? Because it was hard. It was so hard. And I want to point out and this is where I want to go back to the timeline again. You were perfectly healthful. You weren’t having a medical difficulty. This was just an expense that rose in price. Right?

Jackie: Correct.

Gabe: So now imagine if the text message you got was from your doctor that you needed to go on a different medication that wasn’t on generic and therefore cost five hundred dollars a few months versus the $10 co-pay. Or imagine if you were just diagnosed with bipolar affective disorder, major feeling, schizophrenia, psychosis, and they were recommending an outpatient treatment program where the deductible was thirty five hundred dollars. And I can’t help but notice in all of these situations where we get diagnosed with all of these unspeakable things, we all have health insurance. Some of the health insurance are better than others, but health insurance is always present. Now, is anticipated that you get diagnosed with a serious mental illness or I don’t know, is there such a thing as not a serious mental illness? And you have no health insurance? Because I known better my inpatient hospitalization. What, 17 year ago expenditure like $80,000. It didn’t expenditure me because I had health insurance. And I thought that was normal.

Jackie: I think this is a good time to point out, Gabe and I, we both understand our liberty in this conversation. You know, like I can construct my invoices and I do have health insurance. Gabe, same for him. And I can only imagine what it’s like in this moment where you’re choosing between paying for health insurance and feeding your kids or one of those other really intensely frightful preferences you have to offset in areas of what to do with this small amount of money that you move. Granted, if our health insurance. Rewinding for a minute, our health insurance didn’t double. They precisely had an error on his paycheck, which is like represents me want to write them a heavily-worded note about how inconsiderate and anxiety-causing that was. However, if it did double, we would have to realize some genuinely, really difficult alters. Not difficult in which kid to feed? Kind of difficult. But where do we rearrange fund? The reality is we probably could have found it, but it would have changed the path we live our lives. It would have changed what we do with our time and our exertion. And I would have honestly had to work a lot harder to make up for that fund. I would’ve had to find more consumers. But it’s not lost on me that that is an option that I have is to go pinpoint more part. So I want to be cognizant of that in this conversation that Gabe and I both have the ability to figure it out reasonably flawlessly in these situations for the ones who don’t have the ability to figure it out or they can’t or they’re already working their ass off so hard that meeting more money is just not an option right now. Like I “ve seen you”, I have no advice for you. None whatsoever. But I recognize that money and tension is significantly more prominent when you don’t have the ability to precisely get more money.

Gabe: And this is the multiple time line that I was intended to reconnect back at the very beginning. So Jackie, was discovered that her monies come near and she freaks out and things. OK, how am I going to find more coin? But ultimately, I can do it. If it happened to me and it croaked up, I’d be like, well, that suctions. I would rather expend the money on something else. But eventually, I have extravagance income. I’m propitiou I have more budget, so I’ll simply bitch about it to your best friend that, ugh, the cost of health insurance is ridiculous and not lose an iota of sleep. Somebody else is like you have health insurance that can go up top. How luck are you? I would kill to have health insurance at all, let alone have it redoubled. And then other people are just so rich that they’re like, I don’t have health insurance. I just pay for everything in currency, because I’m Bill Gates and Jeff Bezos’ lovechild that comes one hundred and eighty five billion dollars subsidy a daylight. And then there’s parties that are I don’t even know what the title name is for it.

Gabe: They have a level of fiscal danger that I can’t even adequately clarify. And any explanation that I opened would just make me an asshole. There’s really no other course that I can settle it. They don’t have a six month wait for a therapist. They’re not even they don’t even have enough coin to make the roll. And all of us. And this is the takeaway. We’re all wrestle one another. We all have mental illness. We all have mental health problems. We’re all trying to figure out how to make it through. And instead of figuring out how to shape riches more abundant and accessible for all of us, we’re all like Jackie, she got health insurance complaining about the premium. Or, well, she’s so rich, it doesn’t matter. Oh, well, he said he doesn’t even care if his roof falls and he just goes to bed. And that becomes the talking point. I genuinely think that we need to come together on this one and catch out why it is not accessible regardless of your socioeconomic status.

Jackie: I don’t know that I absolutely is in agreement with you. And that’s because I think that if you’re somebody listening to this podcast and you’re going, wow, that asshole is complaining that their health insurance travelled up and I don’t even have health insurance. Honestly, I don’t think they’re that really worried about him and guessing me. I think they’re going. I don’t have fucking health insurance and I don’t know how I’m going to make things happen. I agree that plainly we should find a way to like pool resources or ideas and shape things happen together. But my hypothesi and if you are a if you’re that wealthy listener, delight patronize us. We really could use your help right now. But if you’re not that wealthy person and you’re everybody else listening, I don’t think beings are certainly viewing animosities against other parties in this space. I think everybody’s just trying to survive.

Gabe: That’s a really good point, Jackie. But what bothers me is that what we all have in common is that we’re all fighting actually, really hard to survive. And I do is of the view that we determine how much effort the person is putting into survival based on the resources at their dumping. And that’s what I would like to remove. I don’t know that I acted any harder to survive because I had a lot of resources. I just think I didn’t have to work as hard. And I think that society adjudicates people on the lower end of the socio economic status awfully, very harshly. They say things like, well, why don’t you have savings? Why didn’t you save for a rainy day? Because that’s not an option. That’s really not policy options. They say things like, why won’t you be med compliant or why won’t you go see your doctor? They are trying to see a medical doctor. They’re on a 12 month waiting list for the free clinic. They can’t yield their medications because medications can cost thousands of dollars a year. And they’re choosing between eating, being homeless. And this goes back to something that we really need to discuss. And I’d really like your opinion on it. Jackie, sincerely if you, Jackie Zimmerman, had to choose between paying for safe housing, a safe situate to live and food or your mental health care, which would you choose?

Jackie: I would choose a safe locate to live. Hand down.

Gabe: And I think that most people would. And I think that we need to understand that many beings are in this position.

Jackie: We’ll is accurate back after these messages.

Gabe: We’re back discussing money and anxiety.

Jackie: Gabe, you’re not mistaken. Right? Like, these are all really good points that we need better access to health care. We need a better support system. We need all of these things. But if you’re somebody who doesn’t have any money right now, today, like, for example, I got a stat for you. We know that I enjoy stats. There was a stat by the Royal College of Physician, whoever the inferno that is, that said that half of people with anxiety too have a problem with indebtednes. So are you predisposed to one or the other? That’s not even speaking about medical debt. That’s just talking about indebtednes in general. So how do you get out of this kind of debt? How do you save if you’re not making any money? You can’t even pay your statements. How are you going to save these things?

Gabe: I’m not sure that there is an answer that doesn’t involve like high-level advocacy work and this is where I get stuck, Jackie. It really is where I get stuck. I you know, I don’t know. Marry well?

Jackie: That is something of the crux is of talking, is the plural of crux cruxes? I don’t know. That is a crux, we’ll say, of talking about money in general is that there is no one size shapes. All privilege. Yes. Save more, do more done. Easy. But that is literally not an option for most people.

Gabe: Spend within your entails, I love that one.

Jackie: Right? All that bullshit.

Gabe: Live within your intends is the phrase that everybody usages, and depending on where you are on the socioeconomic ladder, that might mean to move down. You don’t need four Disney vacations a year. You don’t need a new vehicle every year. Like that’s understandable, right? This could be really good advice for some people. We’re not saying that it’s not.

Jackie: I think it’s bullshit.

Gabe: We can all save a bit more and excerpt another certificate. And we all don’t need to buy the biggest live that we can find. But like you said, it’s bullshit for a lot of beings. It’s bullshit for a lot of parties. They can’t. There’s no fund to save. What do you have to say to those people? How are we going to relieve those folks’ tension, Jackie? I am afraid that somebody is going to listen to this and be like Gabe and Jackie said that I’m fucked. Their conclusion was I am fucked and I don’t know what to say to kinfolks. And whenever we talk about money and feeling and suspicion and fund and driving it together, I is of the view that beings don’t want to dive late into this. So “theyre saying” platitudes like save for a rainy day. You don’t have to get dessert. Clip certificates. I use an app that tells me if Amazon has better prices. I’m not saying that any of these are bad impressions. But does it solve the big problem? For real, what is your coping mechanism for this, rehabilitation guru Jackie.

Jackie: Well, for me personally, I use spreadsheets. I affection a good spreadsheet one, because I am unspeakable with math and the spreadsheet will do math for me. So the space that I handle this is witnessing all of the money and I won’t lie. Sometimes when you look at all of the money and all the way it’s being spent and how little fund you actually have. It feels worse because you’re like, wow, I genuinely have nothing. But then at least I know what I’m working with. I think in a lot of these situations, beings don’t know actually what their overhead is in their life. Right? If you’re living outside your wants, how do you know that if you don’t know what your actual intends are? So I don’t have any great gratuities on how to get out of this situation, how to stimulate more coin, save more coin. If I knew that, I’d be doing it myself. I don’t have that. But what I can say is for me, seeming over it does cure. Like pretending like it’s not there doesn’t help. Some people, I contemplate, just go. I known better I can’t yield these things, so I merely don’t think about it and then pretend it’s gonna go away. And I’m not going to say that’s a bad intuition. If that enables you and you can get through your day by time not thinking here of it. Maybe that’s the right selection for you.

Gabe: I am going to hardcore disagree with that. I be understood that as a short term solution.

Jackie: Oh, for sure.

Gabe: It sort of reminds me of, don’t open your monies on the weekends. I mine that. I burrow that suggestion. It was it was advice that my grandmother had. She’s like, inspect, I don’t bank on the weekends. Weekends are for my family. I don’t open my credit card legislations on the weekends. I didn’t want to tell her that, you know , now credit card greenbacks or text meanings where they send you every second of every day and maybe that has something to do with it. Maybe there’s a token of good suggestion in the advice that I just announced bad. Which is that you need to have a time and residence. Now is the time to manage money and now is the time to be present in other areas.

Jackie: Well, yes, apparently, I didn’t mean ignore it forever. That doesn’t solve anything, but like compartmentalizing what you’re doing with your money.

Gabe: I think that that is actually, really good advice. I can get on board with that. Some other suggestions and gratuities that I want to give to parties are self-advocacy is real advocacy. So often we have this desire to help other parties that we don’t help ourselves. And you’re probably contemplating, well, how can I help myself? And here’s how. Ask your doctor if they have a sliding scale. Ask your doctor if they have a zero interest payment plan. Google the medications that you’re being prescribed and see if they have a prescription card that volunteers a discount. Many of the newer remedies do, and it will reduce your co-pay in some cases from $300 all the way down to $10, but almost always by at least 50 percentage. And it is capable of reach medications more affordable. Google free clinics. You may have to wait longer in the waiting room. In fact, you probably will have to wait longer in the waiting area. And that compiles it not available to everybody. But if it is available to you, use it. The authorities have roads that you can lower health care expenses or get a payment plan that’s not at 29% interest or 22% interest. Like if you set it on a credit cards, you do have to ask. They’re not give it to parties. I speculate like Jackie, that taking govern lowers anxiety because even if the thing around the corner is bad. I myself am less uneasy if I know that it’s around the corner. It’s the things that pop out of the shadow at the last minute and move Boo! Those are the things that scare me the most. And finally, I don’t mean to plagiarize Jackie’s thunder, but I kind of want to. Talk about your coin distres in therapy. People don’t want to talk about money. Tell the people in your life that you’re anxious about money. Tell your therapist that you’re concerned about coin. There is nothing wrong with being anxious about money.

Jackie: Thunder stolen 100%. I did talk about money in therapy last Friday, but I concur wholeheartedly. The plan of asking for help. Nobody is going to help you if you don’t ask for it in terms of reduced rates. I formerly got a $ 8,000 MRI for $10 because I asked for help. And then telling parties, like Gabe said. I mean Gabe and I got together a couple of weeks ago and had a quite in-depth conversation about fund and he “ve given me” some cool themes I hadn’t thought about. I probably caused him zero minds. But it was one of those things where just having a dialogue about money uttered it less terrifying to talk about money.

Gabe: We’re taught in our society not to discuss money. I don’t believe in this at all. I discuss coin persistently. I discuss fund with my family. I discuss money with my friends. And I believe this is why I have a different, and I’m going to say healthier rapport, with my business. It’s also why I never pay too much for a auto, because I know what all of my friends and family paid for their automobiles. I know the horror. But listen, your family may work differently, but your friends might not. And the Internet perfectly does not. Google the average cost of things. Google residences that offering reject placards or lower objective solutions. I am as offended as anybody that I have gotten medical care at Wal-Mart, but I’m not going to lie. I’ve gotten medical care at Wal-Mart. The clinic there is fantastic. And it’s set up for people who need to pay little. And it facilitated me a good deal when I needed assist. There are lots and lots of those options. You just have to look around for them because they’re not the favourite ones. They’re not the hospitals. They’re not medical doctors. They’re not the ones that people customarily should be considered. All of these things can give you more dominance. Remember, having more limitation does not mean that negative consequences aren’t coming your road. It exactly means that you’re out in front of them. I believe that that’s entitling. I believe that matters. I believe that that will put you in a better position to deal with it. But more importantly, I believe that you’ll feel better when it’s all over. At least the negative thing didn’t get the pleasure of howling boo and scaring the shit out of you. And I study I genuinely be suggested that from a personal empowerment perspective that has just a tremendous amount of value. Yes, the bad thing happened, but at least it didn’t trick you.

Jackie: And I belief clique back to the beginning that now is not going to be the last panic attack I have about fund. But to Gabe’s pitch, I do try to get in front of it. I know what’s happening, which is why the unexpected cost offset me lose my shit. But there is something to be said about being in control of it. And much like we’ve said about being a patient in general , nobody is going to proponent for you except in cases of you. So this expressed support for how you manage your coin, how you ask for help when you can’t treat your bills and how you move forward if you’re somebody who is in a position who literally cannot make any more money than they are currently making.

Gabe: Jackie, I couldn’t is agreement, did discussing fund with me make you anxious?

Jackie: I do not find discussing money with you to be anxiety-causing. And maybe it’s because we’ve developed a rapport based on brutal honesty. But I think this is one of those simple ways to take away the ability that money has over us is just to talk about it.

Gabe: Listen up, everybody, we have some kindness to ask of you, and don’t worry, it won’t provided free of charge a dime. Wherever you downloaded this podcast, please subscribe, rank and examine. Share us on social media. And when you do, tell people why they should listen. And if you have chums and friends, email it to them. Tell them “what were doing”. You know what? You should make it a full time vocation promoting the Not Crazy podcast. Jackie and I would love that. Stay adjusted after the credits because hey, there’s outtakes and Jackie and I, we mess up a lot and we’ll see everybody next Monday.

Jackie: Have a great week.

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